Monday, December 8, 2008

What Do You Represent?

Like I've said in the past, I am a member on a debate forum. I don't post on it very often because there are about twenty atheists for every one theist. If you say anything that sounds the slightest bit theistic, you will have about ten people picking apart everything you say within about five minutes. It's pretty hard to keep up with it all, and if you don't reply, they assume you've converted.

One thing I've noticed over and over is how they will pick on one thing someone says and immediately apply it to every person of that religious group. If someone uses incorrect punctuation, they'll start picking on that. If someone says anything that anyone can twist into being illogical, they'll pick on that (never mind the fact that atheists can be just as bad about it). One thing that really makes me upset, though, is how so many atheists will say that they're so tired of Christians telling them they're going to hell. So many Christians don't know anything more to say than, "Jesus died on the cross because you're a sinner. He loves you, so you should pray 'this pray' and believe Christ. After that, you need to obey this list of rules." Though there is nothing wrong with this, it misses so much. It talks nothing of our depravity from God and how Jesus is the one who fulfilled the Old Testament and ended estrangement from God. One of the biggest issues people have on the forum is why Christians think that they can force their moral standards from their 'holy book' on people who are "free?" Just recently, I saw this post:

"There are certain words that should be avoided by atheists, rationalists and free thinkers in their writings and conversations. They can, however, be frequently found in the writings of theists, the irrational and those who prefer not to think.

This isn’t meant to be an exhaustive list. I’m simply suggesting the most common words I encounter in religious and philosophical discussions. They reflect a certainty about reality that thinking people don’t accept. I’ll present them without comment, but please feel free to provide your own.

1. Truth
2. Absolute
3. Proof
4. Right
5. Wrong
6. Immoral
7. Unconditional
8. Unquestionable
9. Undoubtedly
10. Never
11. Always
12. Sin
13. Evil
14. Damned
15. Certain"

Though this may show how theists "reflect a certainty about reality that thinking people don’t accept," I think it shows even more how someone who is still estranged from God has a natural mind, and without the Holy Spirit cannot see what the world really is.

Lately, however, One of my biggest "pet peeves" is how they will go around looking for extreme beliefs that some Christians hold, and they will apply it to every single Christian. For example:

"Salvation Army
I never realized these folks had such an odd requirement. But I have no doubt they can produce a Biblical passage that supports their rule."

Of course, there is nothing that says that every single person (or that even one person) in the Salvation Army is a true Christian, but just because the Salvation Army is supposed to be run by Christians, they assume that all of its rules reflect Christianity. Unfortunately, this happens way too often. People will make rules that don't actually have anything to do with living into their identity as the children of Christ, and they will say (or show to others), "I do this because I am Christian." As soon as that happens, people will immediately assume that you represent all of Christianity, and they will assume that every single Christian believes that same thing. No wonder people think that Christianity is just a huge list of rules...

Do you live out the fragrance of Christ by living out of love, or do you live a life that people look at and see a rule book? If you live a life of love, people will see the person of Christ - they won't see a list of rules. They will see you living into who you are and being content in it. If you don't live into your identity, people won't see Christ. What will they see? You. You keeping a list of rules because that's what your "religion" requires of you. At that point, you might as well be apart of any religion - Hindu, Buddhism, Islam, you name it. There is something common with all of those religions - they all require you to keep lists of rules! Christianity is about living by faith and living by the law of love. No, don't mistake me for being antinomian. Living in faith and by the law of love will cause you to live in a way that truly shows your love for Christ and others.

5 comments:

Great Googly Moogly! said...

Your experience is the main reason why I don't even bother with forums like that. As soon as I encounter the idea that only the non-Christian really "thinks" or, conversely, that Christians don't "think" or "reason", I know that I'm in the presence of a fool who is so antagonistic towards Christianity that he/she simply doesn't want to interact. This sort of person is so confused and angry that he/she doesn't realize that his/her position is self-refuting. They simply keep talking, oblivious to their ignorance. I just don't have the time to waste on people like that because there is no hope of conversation. If I encounter an "atheist" (there really is no such thing, however) that wants to reason through issues, then I gladly interact with that person because our conversation will actually go somewhere.

I also get upset when people think that one group of professing Christians represent all of Christianity. My pet-peeve is with the excesses of the Charismatic movement. It often takes a lot of time and energy to get people off the idea that the WOF movement represents Biblical Christianity. It's difficult to witness for Christ when people think that Kenneth Copeland (or any other of these charlatans) speaks for Christ. So many people think Christianity is ridiculous (and rightfully so) because of these deceivers.

Your statements about the danger of "rule-keeping" is also spot-on. When people believe that Christianity is simply following a "rule book", they miss the Gospel entirely. We don't follow rules! We've been transformed (back) into our true humanity in the True Man, Jesus Christ. We've been given LIFE to now be who we are as Children of God! It's because of our union with Christ by the transforming power of the Gospel and the indwelling Spirit--not following "rules"--that we are now restored back to our original purpose as true image-bearers.

Your last paragraph is an excellent conclusion. I hope people will read this all the way through.

Great job, Abbey!

GGM

Abbey said...

Thanks, GGM!

The only reason I'm on the forum is because I like to know what kind of arguments I'm up against when I do actually speak to someone of Christ. It really has helped me to know what kinds of arguments and problems people have with Christianity, so you don't completely draw a blank when someone uses one of those arguments against you. It also gives me a lot to think about. I think it's good (to a certain extent) to be around people who don't believe the same thing as yourself - it really makes you think through everything! Like you said, though, those people on the forum are the "cream of the crop" (if there's such a thing) of the atheist world. Very occasionally I will post on it, but it doesn't usually go over too well. Recently someone started a thread to get people to "discuss" whether atheism is a religion or not. I wrote my definition of what "religion" is, showed how all religions (including atheism) fit into this definition and why Christianity doesn't. Man, I was getting called all sorts of things... It was kind of funny - in a sad way.

Thanks for reading my post. :)

Great Googly Moogly! said...

In case your interested, I just finished a comment on Russ' "Satire and Theology" blog that you may enjoy. Do you have that link? If not, it's

satireandtheology.blogspot.com

(I still haven't figured out how to make a hyperlink)

Anyway, I'm not expecting you to comment on it...I just thought you might enjoy another GGM rant. :-)

Abbey said...

Are you implying that I enjoy your rants? :P Lol - I'll look at it. Thanks.

Dr. Russell Norman Murray said...

Thanks for the comment on satire and theology, it is thought provoking and I replied.

We need to represent the gospel, Christ and God, and not be afraid to use the required words. We need to be respectful but not compromising in regard to the truth. We can have our Reformed leanings, and Reformed Baptist leanings, and yet realize that even if our doctrines are often more correct than those who differ, we can still at times learn from Christians of other traditions.

Russ